Is this game abandonware?

onawire · Post by **onawire** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:20 pm

I wasn't sure which category to actually put this question into so feel free to move it if you know the appropriate category.

Is the Vampire Diaries game (1996) considered abandonware? I would assume it is because Her Interactive no longer gives support or sells the game. And they have stated many times including recently that they can't "dig up the old Vampire Diaries games". If so does that mean all content including music files and video files are public domain?

Post by **zobraks** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:56 pm

http://www.mobygames.com/featured_article/feature=7/
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/features/pc/abandonware/
http://www.brasslantern.org/community/c ... warez.html

Read these articles and you'll see for yourself what is abandonware. It's not a legal term anyway, since law knows no abandonware.

onawire · Post by **onawire** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:58 pm

Okay, I read the first two articles. Frankly, imo (which is just my opinion and of course no one has to agree) but if the game is at least 10 years old (Vampire Diaries is about 12) then there shouldn't be any problem with it. I mean if the companies are either A) no longer around - Amercian Laser isn't..although they did start a new company..Digital Leisure..but they like Her Interactive do not offer support nor do they offer the game for sale to those who are interested and request it by email/telephone/etc. Frankly, if they don't want to let people purchase it legally then why not consider it freeware? It's old and more or less forgotten.

I do understand that most of these games are old and the new generations probably wouldn't touch them considering they have their playstations and wii's with amazing graphics..but to the older generations who grew up with them and want to play them should still be considered. There will always be fans around. There should be some classic/abandonware company that will take these rare games and distribute them legally. I'm sure that even today people would buy these games if they were offered for a reasonable price because their older games. Although, I suppose the problem that would lie within that is they aren't be produced anymore and media would be a limited supply. Hmm..I really think if the company doesn't want to "handle" the game anymore (or the company no longer exists) then given a certain amount of time the games should be free to anyone who wants them. If you can't buy it online (ebay doesn't count) or buy it in the store for so many years then it should be considered public domain. It's not like the companies are getting the money by "abandoning" it. Because basically that's what they are doing. They are abandoning their game to let it die and be forgotten.

I wanted to ask you. What do you guys think about this considering this site is promoting just this. Don't get me wrong I'm glad I found this site. I'm just wondering what everyone's take on this is. Don't you think these companies would be thrilled to see that a game that was once popular 12 years ago is still being talked about and enjoyed in the year 2008? I would be thrilled to death that I made such an impact on the gaming world if I had worked on one of these games. It means you achieved your goal of entertaining the gamers.

Post by **zobraks** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:19 pm

onawire wrote:Don't you think these companies would be thrilled to see that a game that was once popular 12 years ago is still being talked about and enjoyed in the year 2008? I would be thrilled to death that I made such an impact on the gaming world if I had worked on one of these games. It means you achieved your goal of entertaining the gamers.

Hm, I think the game companies wouldn't be thrilled with this and similar sites at all. Their primary goal is not making gamers happy, it's rather making the profit. People who personally made these games would maybe feel different.

My guess is just as good as any other's.

onawire · Post by **onawire** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:26 pm

zobraks wrote:
onawire wrote:Don't you think these companies would be thrilled to see that a game that was once popular 12 years ago is still being talked about and enjoyed in the year 2008? I would be thrilled to death that I made such an impact on the gaming world if I had worked on one of these games. It means you achieved your goal of entertaining the gamers.
Hm, I think the game companies wouldn't be thrilled with this and similar sites at all. Their primary goal is not making gamers happy, it's rather making the profit. People who personally made these games would maybe fill different.

My guess is just as good as any other's.

I see your point. Well, if the companies are that greedy then they shouldn't stop producing the games so people can't buy them. If they want the cash 12 years later then my suggestion is to make the games available again. Otherwise, their gonna lose profit. They shouldn't whine about it then. It's their decision to stop selling them. I bet their really p.o.ed about the people selling the Vampire Diaries on eBay for $100-150 a piece. Again, another loss on their part due to the games being abandoned.

Post by **zobraks** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:38 pm

Don't get me wrong, onawire. I just played the devil's advocate.

Too few people would buy old adventures if they were published again, so it wouldn't pay to the companies. On the other hand, they frown at seeing people download their property (they still own the licenses). So it's a "a-dog-not-chewing-the-bone-and-not-willing-to-give-it-to-someone-else" situation in my opinion.

onawire · Post by **onawire** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:43 pm

zobraks wrote:Don't get me wrong, onawire. I just played the devil's advocate.

Too few people would buy old adventures if they were published again, so it wouldn't pay to the companies. On the other hand, they frown at seeing people download their property (they still own the licenses). So it's a "a-dog-not-chewing-the-bone-and-not-willing-to-give-it-to-someone-else" situation in my opinion.

Well, as long as there's the internet people will always share what they have. Honestly, I think it's nice others want to share these rare gems. It's like stepping back in time. I guess the fans are nicer than the companies. Damn the companies for being greedy!

Perhaps one day will win this fight. Of course, all of us will probably be dead by then.

Post by **loki1985** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:59 pm

what you people seem to forget here: there always is a legal component to this issue which is not always clearly visible.

with some games it is easy to determine who owns it, but with some it is not. in many cases the decision to release a game cannot be made by just one person. often there might even be bigger legal issues involved, like: does the license of the video library allow it to be released as free.
often also games where not distributed by a the developers themselves, but another company. here also a distribution contract with exclusivity clauses might exist.

sometimes, rights issues are as easy. like e.g. for "Flight of the Amazon Queen", here they not only freewared it, but made it public domain also IIRC.

but in other cases a lawyer would need to analyse all contracts and licenses to decide whether it could be freewared. problem here: such analyse could cost serious amounts of money.

you see: generally, it just aint easy.

Post by **hfric** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:59 pm

"Vampire Diaries on eBay for $100-150"

here you get it for free in digital form

onawire · Post by **onawire** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:07 pm

hfric wrote:"Vampire Diaries on eBay for $100-150"
here you get it for free in digital form

lol Yeah I know. People are crazy for paying that amount. Only good thing about buying it is that usually you'd get the box art. I'm one of those people who likes owning the box art as well as the game, but hey sometimes you just gotta make do.

Post by **zobraks** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:22 pm

loki1985 wrote:what you people seem to forget here: there always is a legal component to this issue which is not always clearly visible.

You're quite right loki, but we were referring only to "simple cases of ownership" (if there are such). We're laymen, after all.

Post by **Virgil** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:29 pm

onawire wrote: lol Yeah I know. People are crazy for paying that amount. Only good thing about buying it is that usually you'd get the box art. I'm one of those people who likes owning the box art as well as the game, but hey sometimes you just gotta make do.

You get physical copy of a game, which you can hold in your hands. And with older games you usually will get some additional stuff, like guides, manuals, letters, newspapers. For example take a look at Accolade's Max Pak, which served as a prize in a contest on my site. I don't think all these papers are available online. Digital copy is just as a high-res print of a painting.

onawire · Post by **onawire** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:25 pm

Virgil wrote:
onawire wrote: lol Yeah I know. People are crazy for paying that amount. Only good thing about buying it is that usually you'd get the box art. I'm one of those people who likes owning the box art as well as the game, but hey sometimes you just gotta make do.
You get physical copy of a game, which you can hold in your hands. And with older games you usually will get some additional stuff, like guides, manuals, letters, newspapers. For example take a look at Accolade's Max Pak, which served as a prize in a contest on my site. I don't think all these papers are available online. Digital copy is just as a high-res print of a painting.

Exactly. Having the original you get more in a way. But if it's rare sometimes all you can do is settle for a digital copy. I'd rather have the original but I'm not going to pay $100 for it.

Those little paper wheels reminded me of that Jordan Vs. Bird game I used to have a long time ago. I wonder if I could find that. That game was so old it was on a floppy disk!

mxjgr · Post by **mxjgr** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:42 am

I actually bought "The Lost Treasures of Incocom 1" at E-Bay WITHOUT the games (maybe the original owner lost the disks), simply because I wanted to have all the extra manuals.

Especially Infocom released a lot of great extras with its games.

Gr.Viper · Post by **Gr.Viper** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:39 am

We have them all scanned and photographed here now