Can someone explain the appeal of "ripped" games?

NE0 · Post by **NE0** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:24 pm

dead-meat wrote:Well, there's a lot of games no one has the ISO of or the one who has it, won't share it. So as stated before, all games here are strictly ment to be used as demos... and you don't play a demo and tell ppl: that demo sucked, it missed the other game levels, do you?

Can't understand why so many people are complaining about rips. You all get it for free, rips take less space (upload ) and most of them are kinda a work of art somehow.

Hmm.. I'll stop at this point

I totally agree...if you refuse playing rips then why are you here...isos can be found all over shitty p2p networks.

Post by **loki1985** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:36 pm

RIPs are ART.

germo · Post by **germo** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:26 pm

@loki1985: that's what I'm talking about

Rekrul · Post by **Rekrul** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:01 pm

germo wrote:Use addons if they're available. In most cases you can assemble whole ripped content this way + some members have made few addons that wasn't released by the scene groups (me for example ). Downloading rip and all addons will take less time than ISO for sure. That's why RIPs are better in MOST cases - I don't claim that there are no exeptions

Unfortunately, not every rip has add-ons for it. Even when it does, adding the extra content back in can sometimes be a pain in the neck. Plus, if the CD has music tracks, I'm not aware of any way that they can be added to a rip unless you download them and burn an audio CD from them.

As for rips being smaller, the individual archives may be smaller, but if all the content from the original is added, it's going to add up to the same size anyway. An ISO of a CD that's only half-full will compress wuite well using Zip or Rar, so the size evens out in the end. If thhe rip still ends up being smaller, that means that you're missing something.

NeoRAGERx wrote:I totally agree...if you refuse playing rips then why are you here...isos can be found all over shitty p2p networks.

Because most of the P2P networks aren't meant for dialup users. Sure they work, eventually, but not very well. Most of them give priority to those who upload the most. Since I have a top upload speed of about 2.5K/s (which will completely kill my download speed), I'm at the very bottom of the food chain.

I prefer to download from web sites, FTP sites or newsgroups whenever possible.

Post by **loki1985** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:03 pm

Rekrul wrote:If thhe rip still ends up being smaller, that means that you're missing something.

never heard of a wonderful invention called "MP3", eh?

believe me, i wouldn't say half of the "facts" you present here after having a little knowledge about compression, even with lossless compression.
just compare InstallShields CAB with UHArc.... no need to discuss here.

RIPs are _significantly_ smaller than ISOs in 95% of all cases, there is no need to search for a noCD, they are scene releases which makes them special, they incorporate art (cracktros and installers).

of course there are cases where an ISO is prefferable.

but very often it is the opposite:

perfect example is The Suffering RIP by Technic.
the RIP is 250 MB, missing only a trailer for another game (!!!).
whereas the game as ISO is 1,5 Gig....
so, that makes about 1,2 gig for a trailer you probably don't wanna see,
and if, can get for free on the net.....

think about this for some minutes

that is part of the appeal of ripped games.

is this explanation enough?

and, if not: you are getting it free, if you don't like it, don't take it.

Rekrul · Post by **Rekrul** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:32 pm

loki1985 wrote:RIPs are _significantly_ smaller than ISOs in 95% of all cases, there is no need to search for a noCD, they are scene releases which makes them special, they incorporate art (cracktros and installers).

I don't have a whole lot of faith in "scene" releases. Back in the days of the C64 and Amiga, I used to be one of the biggest pirates in my area. I had hundreds of disks for both. I even cracked some stuff on the C64, although I wasn't all that skilled at it. I saw a lot of cracked games. At least half of them didn't work right. Missing files, screwed up graphics, PAL games that hadn't been NTSC fixed and which were unplayable, etc. My favorite had to be the Eaglesoft release of Defender of the Crown. "Oops, we forgot a file! Oh well, you can play most of the game..." Idiots!

Any time you start messing with the original program, you run the risk of screwing something up. Which is why I made sure to playtest anything I cracked before releasing it.

As for "cracktros" or as I like to call them "cracker bitchfests", I can happily do without them. "FCF presents another great game. Hey Megacrap, you sniveling little pusswad, stop stealing our releases! Learn to crack stuff on your own. We talked to Hacknoid and he told us all about you..." (add another 10K of bitching and "greetz")

I saw enough of these things on the C64 and Amiga to last me a lifetime. I still remember the days of loading up a game, having to wait 30-45 seconds for the cracktro to unpack, pressing the space bar, waiting 30-45 seconds for the next cracktro to unpack, pressing the spacebar, waiting 30-45 seconds for the third cracktro to unpack, etc. Some games had as many as 5-6 before you could get to the game. At that point, I'd press the freeze button on my Super Snapshot cartridge and save the game to disk without all that garbage. Sure, they're pretty to look at the first time, then they just become something you have to skip over to get to the game, like the company intros you find at the start of most games.

I have to wonder, if the people who write these cracktros are such skilled programmers, how come so few of them ever write any actual games? I'll tell you why, because writing a routine that displays pretty graphics on the screen and plays music is a lot easier than writing a full game.

Anything I cracked or snapshotted had a simple text screen at the start which took about half a second to display. I'm sure that if any of them ever made their way to another country (unlikely, since none of them were "0 day") they probably ended up with 5-6 cracktros on them.

loki1985 wrote:perfect example is The Suffering RIP by Technic.
the RIP is 250 MB, missing only a trailer for another game (!!!).
whereas the game as ISO is 1,5 Gig....
so, that makes about 1,2 gig for a trailer you probably don't wanna see,
and if, can get for free on the net.....

Ok, I'll concede that there are some occasions where a ripped copy might be preferable, but how do you know? How do you know that the rip contains everything the original game and that it isn't missing a bunch of the original content?

loki1985 wrote:and, if not: you are getting it free, if you don't like it, don't take it.

Generally, I don't. I wasn't complaining that more of the games on the site weren't ISOs, I was just having a discussion about them.

NE0 · Post by **NE0** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:12 pm

Rekrul wrote:Because most of the P2P networks aren't meant for dialup users. Sure they work, eventually, but not very well. Most of them give priority to those who upload the most. Since I have a top upload speed of about 2.5K/s (which will completely kill my download speed), I'm at the very bottom of the food chain.

I prefer to download from web sites, FTP sites or newsgroups whenever possible.

Well seeing you refuse to play rips i tought you have atleast a 1.5 MB connexion so that's why i said that you can find stuff on shitty p2p. And i agree with you on the last part. I hate p2p cuz you can get fake/virii and i MIGHT use p2p IF i can't find the game i'm looking on irc or ftp or even friends or buy but till then no, besides someone in my neighbourhood got busted for sharing stuff...one more reason to refuse p2p. My respects for being an amiga/c64 scene guy

tho. This is my 2 cents...

germo · Post by **germo** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:42 pm

Rekrul wrote: How do you know that the rip contains everything the original game and that it isn't missing a bunch of the original content?

We know what is ripped because there are rules which tells you what can be ripped and what should stay. Also every group must indicate in their nfo what was removed. The Scene has organized itself since C64. You download, you read and you know what you have

About size: every rip should be smaller than an iso because of a better compression. Even with all addons.
Ripping is not cutting off essential content - it's more like removing stuff that you don't need to finish the game. Of course there are people who says that in-game music is essential - yes! we respect them too!

Post by **loki1985** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:11 am

Rekrul wrote:How do you know that the rip contains everything the original game and that it isn't missing a bunch of the original content?

from NFOs, which can be gotten from sources like nforce.nl and others.
so, why should they tell the truth about what was ripped, one might ask? easy, because of the reputation... it is just a big game, and the goal is reputation... if they screw up, there is word all over some corners of the net, and there is an opinion if you try the release yourself.

so a lot advanced since the jolly times of the C64, and the even better and more colourful times of the Amiga. and i think have advanced to a better state.
especially the fact that in nearly all cases you _can_ try the installers and/or cracktros, but you do not have to....

Rekrul · Post by **Rekrul** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:32 pm

NeoRAGERx wrote:Well seeing you refuse to play rips i tought you have atleast a 1.5 MB connexion so that's why i said that you can find stuff on shitty p2p.

Nope, I'm just crazy.

The biggest file I downloaded from P2P was a 700MB ISO. It took about a week and a half!

NeoRAGERx wrote:And i agree with you on the last part. I hate p2p cuz you can get fake/virii and i MIGHT use p2p IF i can't find the game i'm looking on irc or ftp or even friends or buy but till then no

I once downloaded a 200MB file and then found out that it was misnamed and that it was something I already had!

NeoRAGERx wrote:besides someone in my neighbourhood got busted for sharing stuff...one more reason to refuse p2p.

Which is why I don't leave anything in my shared directory after it finishes downloading. I know it runs contrary to the spirit of P2P and file sharing, but I live in the USA, land of the copyright fanatics.

NeoRAGERx wrote:My respects for being an amiga/c64 scene guy tho. This is my 2 cents...

Thanks. I still have my C64 and Amiga and all the disks. Half of them probably don't work anymore though. I used to rent C64 games from a mail-order place called Rent-A-Disk and freeze them with my Snapshot cartridge. Often I'd pick games that had already been on the local BBS's, but messed up, then I'd freeze them with my Snapshot cartridge and upload good copies. Never cracked anything on the Amiga though...

germo wrote:Of course there are people who says that in-game music is essential - yes! we respect them too!

Maybe not essential, but in some games it changes the whole mood if you leave out the music.

NE0 · Post by **NE0** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:19 pm

Rekrul wrote:Maybe not essential, but in some games it changes the whole mood if you leave out the music.

Yeah sometimes it does, i have to agree especialy for adventures or action, racing games i can do without music after being bored by the looping music

.

Rekrul · Post by **Rekrul** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:11 am

NeoRAGERx wrote:Yeah sometimes it does, i have to agree especialy for adventures or action, racing games i can do without music after being bored by the looping music .

I pretty much agree. In particular I was thinking of American McGee's Alice. The music really enhances the atmosphere of the game.

Post by **Virgil** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:02 pm

Music and movies in many games appears only to be later included in "features list", they don't have any cultural value.

germo · Post by **germo** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:43 pm

Maybe in Alice, NFSU, Q2 and some other games music creates the mood but generally it doesn't. Seriously I think I could count all games I've ever played which had great music. In all other games I'm turning music down and listening to radio

For cutscenes: maybe in 10% of the games they are worth a penny. In many others they are just annoying.

brutalistu · Post by **brutalistu** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:36 pm

germo wrote:Maybe in Alice, NFSU, Q2 and some other games music creates the mood but generally it doesn't. Seriously I think I could count all games I've ever played which had great music. In all other games I'm turning music down and listening to radio For cutscenes: maybe in 10% of the games they are worth a penny. In many others they are just annoying.

Agree with that. I simply COULD NOT play the ripped version of Advent Rising or Star Wars Republic Command. Without music they're ... any game. I recommend these two games.
Try a sample of the music of those games:
http://www.adventtrilogy.com/ - (the downloads area) Advent Rising
http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swrepubl ... index.html -